There’s a funny thing about freedom of speech – everyone’s willing to protect the forms of speech they like; but the constitution protects the kinds of speech the majority do not like. Most Americans hate the idea of flag burning; but the Supreme Court ruled that this is a form of free speech. Because as long as the person is not causing physical harm, they must be allowed to express their views, regardless of the feelings of the majority.

This guy is filled with hate; but how many people were swayed by his speech to vilify gay men? And how many, like you, were disgusted by his behavior? That reminder that such hate exists in this world, and that disgust you felt – those are valuable lessons that come from freedom of speech.

Yes, this is horrible; but he must be allowed to say what he wants. And if the KKK ever came to campus, they should be allowed to say their piece too. That doesn’t mean the University approves; and it doesn’t stop you from heckling or arguing with them. Free speech for one doesn’t mean the majority must be silent. Next time, take a few minutes to stand by this man and heckle/harangue him. Belittle his beliefs and point out how wrong he is. My guess – he’ll get booed, and you will get applause. That’s free speech at its best.

David is spot on here. Eloquent and to the point. Every single person deserves to have their voice heard… even if they are the only one who believes what they say. In this case, I’m willing to bet with Mr. Wilson here that not many people at UNM were moved by what “The Baptist” had to say. I think this should also follow for those that disagree with him. If it makes you feel better to argue with the man and point out the obvious flaws in his logic, go ahead. But I for one, feel it would serve better if every single person ignored him and let his mindless drivel fall on deaf ears. In other words, don’t play his game.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” — Mohandas Ghandi

Freedom of speech can be quite inconvenient and often offensive but, the alternative is much worse. I agree with the commenter that said the best way to deal the hate speech of “Shawn the Baptist” is to ignore it. His diatribe falling on deaf ears is the best antidote to anything he has to say. Censorship is a road best not taken.

You’re both wrong & Mr Luna is right. The moment he used the word ‘homo’ he should have been driven from campus. UNM shows an astonishing lack of sensitivity here – maybe because of all the students who are comfortable using ‘home’ & ‘fag’ in everyday conversation….

Shawn the Baptist is simply an unintended consequence of the First Amendment.

But it is in David Luna’s statement where the REAL truth is told:

“He continued to tell the UNM community, and not just homosexuals this time, that God abhorred them because they were sinners…”

David Luna, who seems to feel that Shawn the Baptist is particularly offensive, finds Shawn the Baptist even MORE offensive when the heterosexual students are considered just as ‘sinful’ as the gay students.

It is as if David Luna is saying that Shawn the Baptist is wrong to be shouting anti-gay rhetoric on a street-corner, but to include HETEROSEXUALS in that group of ‘sinners,’ well, that’s just much MORE wrong??? How could heterosexuals be considered as ‘sinful’ as gay people???

So it was really bad when Shawn the Baptist was homo-hating on the street-corner, but when heteros are added to the hate list, it’s REALL, REALLY bad???

And it is in that little nugget that some truth is revealed. That perhaps David Luna might not feel much differently toward homosexuals than Shawn the Baptist does, but is perhaps intelligent enough to know that shouting it from a street-corner just makes you look like an asshole as well as a bigot.

It’s all well and good to acknowledge people’s First Amendment right to free speech when it’s only the ‘homos’ that they attack with that speech, but when heteros are included in that attack-speech, suddenly the rules should change or something???

Wake up to yourselves, people.

Bill, you’re the kind of guy that plays race card when when doesn’t get a job, isn’t picked for a team, doesn’t get an A on a paper, etc. Attempting to sniff out homophobia or bad will in a letter that simply contains none means you missed the point and are a complete jerk.

I asked Shawn the Baptist if Adam and Eve’s kids committed incest by marrying each other and pro-creating. No one else has ever answered the question, but refreshingly he said yes. Only a super douche is gonna stand there and try to argue with a Christian Preacher. Has anyone ever seen the UNM Police walking the beat, ever? Maybe if they got off their fat duffs, there would not be people smoking all over this smokeless campus, or chollo graffiti scrawled on every nook and cranny. UNM has a student, staff, and visitor codes of conduct. I was called into the dean of students before the disaster in Iraq, for posting a piece of satire on the KOAT website, and told to watch what I say. I was also arrested by the S.S. on the UNM campus, for something I had typed online. Words definitely have consequences, even in this anonymous internet age. Except on the Daily Lobo Comments of course…

I’m just as disgusted by some of Don Schader’s latest comments about sucking **** and kissing *** as I am by Reverend Shawn..

Did he actually have a permit?
Do people actually need permits to speak on campus?

Louis Farrakhan would get the red carpet and he screams about BLACK POWER! “UNM should never welcome hate on our campus. Would UNM give permits to the KKK for speakers to shout at its students, faculty and staff? I don’t know, probably not though.”

There is also a UNM sponsored group called Black Men in Motion which was first organized by Louis Farrakhan and the Million Man March!

Would UNM allow the NAACP on campus? Aren’t they the National Association for the Advancement of COLORED People? The KKK is for the Advancement of WHITE People SO WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE Mr. Luna? BOTH PREACH HATE AGAINST THE OTHER JUST BY THEIR VERY NAME!

What about all the LA RAZA, CHICANO, MEXSLA, and all the others based on RACISM JUST BY THEIR VERY NAME?

What the hell is BET television? BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION? RACIST TO THE BONE! What if there was WHITE ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION?

RACISTS ALL!

Freedom of speech is dependent on the current flow of propaganda in the media. If the media determines something offensive, we all follow and fight to have it destroyed.

I have taken a stand against media and have tried to show it on campus.

I recently, this morning, expressed my freedom of speech with a stand against media on the center of the universe, with chalk, only to have it washed away within a few hours. The only thing questionably offensigve was that it portrayed the media as being agaisnt freedom and peace through propaganda.

Now please explain to me how freedom of speech is supposed to work.

Free speech is free speech, and it is challenging at times to determine what is the reality of this right. There are many things worse in the world than having a self proclaimed preacher spouting his religious beliefs that we can directly attribute to the right-to-fre-speech.

The problem we face today when we look at this right, is that public opinion is way more important today than it should be. What is true, what is fair, what is right— all pale in comparison to the mighty “public opinion”.

I like what David Wilson mentioned in his post.

DAVID LUNA you are a contradiction when you say “I go [to UNM] to hear and discuss opposing viewpoints” while demanding the gagging of Shawn the Baptist. You laud “Free Speech” while wanting to stop his because you do not like the message.
I believe Shawn does not know his bible, do you? When Jesus confronted the crowd who were prepared to stone the woman, his invitation to cast the first stone- IF YOU ARE WITHOUT SIN- sent a simple BUT clear message to His followers: You cannot condemn to eternal death any person unless you are free of sin. And since Christians believe in Original Sin, they are not authorized by Jesus to condemn to eternal death any person. There is plenty of scriptural support to show Shawn the error of his way, but that is a different discussion.

David, why were you intimidated by Shawn “threatening passersby with eternal damnation?” What power does Shawn have; is he God? I am far more concerned that you want to limit Free Speech, a right we own due to God, or for non-believers, by the fact we are equal to each other and possess Free Speech by virtue of being a human being. The 1st Amendment prohibits the Congress from limiting what we own by our birth.

DAVID WILSON, well said.

There’s no need for censorship, regardless of how inflammatory a bigot Shawn the Bapist may be. All that needs to be done is for you to stand up and call him out, in front of the crowd. He’d probably be caught off guard if you merely informed him that he is wrong and that he should discontinue his diatribe if he would like not to be thought of as complete idiot.

To remain silent and allow something you find repulsive to continue is the real sin.

Bravo David Wilson.
As a student of the 60’s I saw every imaginable group come to campus and attempt to sway students to their views. I did not always liked what they said and would never defend their position but I would absolutely defend their right to say it.
Freedom of speech is tough thing to accept if you disagree with the speaker. If you disallow any individual this right then you have to deny all of us our rights. Censorship is a very slippery slope.

This man raised awareness of creationism / religious extremism, I say he did a good thing. :)

Oh, shawn the baptist…working hard every day to show the good students of UNM the insanity of christianity, and god bless him for it!!! i typically dont like being preached at (had enough of that as a youngster), but i do love getting to see one lone jesus freak being shouted down by a band of lack-luster stoners. thats why free-speech is great, christians get to be assholes, and i get to tell ‘em what i think of ‘em. a couple eyes get blackened every now and again and i feel proud to be an American, freely exercising the rights so many people around the world wish they had. so if shawn the baptist offends you, don’t listen to him, or even better come back with a megaphone or boom-box and shut him the fuck down. the first amendment is not just for religious jerk offs or a tea party bigots, you can use it too, Mr. Luna. get loud.

Christianity is not more insane than marketing ploys, governments, politics, etc. Myopic view points that label speakers outrageous due to having a disagreement with the speaker or subject, are likely not as shallow as individuals who label concepts they don’t understand as insane.

Religion is not the issue at hand. Those in power would like you to think so, as it will divide us into opposing categories.

The real issue is whether we can understand our differences and learn to accept the other as we accept ourselves. If we can not, then we will continue to argue untill we die.

When peace is misrepresented, our freedoms become questionable.

I’m a gay man and I believe this idiot has a right to free speech. What needs to happen is simple. Get a gay group to stand next to him and start speaking about gay rights and homophobia. It can become a teaching moment. You can usually find a progressive christian on campus who can debunk all of that selective bible reading the conservative christians use in their diatribes.

Sorry MARK, you have it backwards, the very nature of Progressives is to control people, Conservatives accept free will.

I don’t know if you all heard this, but those expensively made signs Shawn the Baptist has are free to whoever wants them. You have to run up and grab them really quickly, but he’s cool with that. He just wants everyone to have their own anti-evolution signage, and perhaps when he’s given them all away he’ll be done with our campus.

HATING Bush was a full-time job for most of UNM including calling him a “murderer, the biggest terrorist in the world, a Chimp,” etc… including from Professors who spouted this HATE in class leaving those who supported him, silent at the barrel of a gun!

Should we also mention Cheney?

Have you seen any Obama HATERS with signs, screaming, protests, classrooms/professors? NO!!! WHY IS THAT?

Obama lays out higher education agenda, get a Medical Assistant Degree from http://bit.ly/a80qrv

Why doesn’t anyone hate obama like bush?

the answer is so simple no one is willing to admit or even understand it.

Media and propaganda

hitler wasn’t so different.

we need to stop media!

Use Obama’s Education Stimulus Package to earn a Medical Assistant Degree Online http://bit.ly/a80qrv

Is Good Enough Good Enough For God?

Bad news: 10 out of 10 people die…if you were to die tomorrow, would you go to heaven or hell? Most people think that they are good enough to go to heaven. They say, I’ve never smoked pot, gotten drunk, or had sex outside of marriage, I’ve never had an abortion, I’m not a homosexual, and of course the Bible condemns people to hell for all those sinful acts (Rev 21:8, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-22, 2 Tim 3:2-5, Ex 20:13,1 Peter 4:3).

So let’s see if you are good enough to go to heaven by using God’s law as the standard, the ten commandments, since He is the one who will judge: Have you ever lied? Probably too many times to count. Ever stolen anything regardless of its value? Have you ever used the Lord’s Name as a cuss word? Have you ever looked with lust, (pornography, etc.)? Jesus said in Matthew 5:28, “whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Have you ever hated anyone? The Bible says God sees your hatred as murder of the heart. These are all very serious sins against God. If you have said “yes” to these, then you admit to being a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer, and murderer at heart; and we’ve only looked at five of the ten commandments. Perhaps you say “but God is good”, and will therefore overlook your sins. Because God is good, He will make sure all murderers, thieves, adulterers, blasphemers, and liars receive justice. A good judge would not let a criminal go free without paying for the crime – only a corrupt judge would do that. God is not corrupt. He is Holy and Just. So the question is: how will you do when you die and stand before a good God? Will you be innocent or guilty? God sees even your deeds done in darkness. Just like me and everybody else, you would be guilty of breaking His perfect infinite law and so deserve infinite punishment in hell.

Good News (Gospel): In His mercy, God made a way for you to be forgiven, cleansed from sin, and reconciled to Him and He commands a response from you. Do you know what He did so that you wouldn’t have to die in your sins and go to hell? He sent His only Son (God in flesh), Jesus Christ, the spotless Lamb of God, to die on the cross for your sins. Jesus Christ was the perfect payment for your sins against God. Then on the third day He rose from the dead, defeating death, proving He was God, and is alive forevermore. Now you may be saying, “God is love”, or “God is all forgiving” Well that is true, but what you must do in response to His lovingkindness, is realize your wretchedness before Him by changing your mind about sin and REPENT. STOP YOUR SINNING and turn to Jesus. Jesus said that you MUST be born again (John 3:3). Are you? He will give you a new heart with new desires, you will hate your sin and love God! “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12. Because Jesus Christ is the only way to God then that excludes religions like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, and Catholics, etc., They all say you can “work” your way to heaven. The Bible says you can’t. (Eph. 2:8,9) Only God Himself through Jesus Christ can save you from deserved punishment in hell.

Please consider this seriously. Your eternity depends on it! Humble yourself before God. “God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble” James 4:6. Put your complete trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. Again, stop sinning and trust Jesus.

Shawn: Cram your stupid God, churchy.

And peace and Did you HATE Bush? (which I assume are the same person – probably Steve up to his old tricks again):

Um, sorry, but Hitler was A LOT different than Obama. Duh.

You are welcome to hate whoever the hell you want, but don’t try to pretend it’s anything except your own fear and racism that makes you hate the man.

Also, if you haven’t seen any “OBAMA haters” with signs you obviously haven’t seen any pictures or video of the TEABAGGER rallies. I guess those photos depicting Obama as (surprise) Hitler or a Voodoo Doctor were all just good clean fun, huh?

Stupid.

Just using my right to free speech.

apparently, JD is also exercising his right to be a total douche.

“Cram your stupid God, churchy”

LOL!

“…including from Professors who spouted this HATE in class leaving those who supported him, silent at the barrel of a gun”

So UNM professors held guns on students in order to keep them silent about their love (sic) for Bush? That’s a hell of a charge, son. Got any proof?

OH MAN said: “apparently, JD is also exercising his right to be a total douche.”

Yep.

It’s not like I’m depriving anyone of their right to be a douche, too. That’s the fun thing about FREE SPEECH. See above.

Shawn had his say, you had your say. What’s the problem? I’m entitled to my own opinion.

Suffering is innevitable. Every second of every moment of our entire life we are dying and suffering unconciously. To become free of this pain, that we cannot understand, we do things. Things like drugs, glutteny, lust, ridicule, etc. Most, if not all, of these things are driven by our irrational side, emotions. It is the change of our present emotional state that we relate to happiness (the freedom of suffering). This is closely related to Sigmund Freud’s work.

In the past century, I doubt people have changed much, in accordance to their irrational side, but the world as we know it is much different. Because of technology, we have the capability to communicate with a person without ever seeing or knowing that person. If it were possible to tap into the emotional system of a population through technology, that population could be influenced to better suit their own emotional needs, happiness. This is exactly what is happening in the US in order to make us believe in continually buying things we don’t need. This idea of controlling a population through technology, media, is not new; Germany is a prime example.

Edward Bernay’s, the nephew of Sigmund Freud, knew this possibility very well, and he effectively instituted this idea into the US. He created the council on public relations. He has a book titled PROPAGANDA.

If my assumptions are correct, you will propably reject the notion that media is counter productive to your happpiness as well as everything I’ve just typed.

Shawn: God is a fake creation, used to conform people’s minds. Apparently it worked on you.