Wow! The Bible actually cares for children….?!? Hmm… I wonder what this means then…

And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV)

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AND HE’S THE LEADER OF ISLAM? KORANICAL MORALITY?

Mohammad raped little girls daily! HOW SICK IS THAT COMRADE BIBLICAL? DID HE PAY THEIR FATHER’S “FIFTY PIECES OF SILVER?”

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I have never met a group of people more quick to judge others, more disrespectful and more violent than the anti-choice group. I have read commentary for this article that the pro-choice group used vague metaphysical ideas to support our cause – I am curious in what ways medical doctors caring for thier patients using one of the safest non-surgical medical procedures qualifys as vague and metaphysical. This lecture was an exercise in promoting tolerance and I couldnt think of a group who relies on non-objective non-scientific scare tactics and hate more than the anti-choice group. Also, we absolutely promote prevention of pregnancy through abstinence and comprehensive sex education but the anti-choice groups have also met this with incredible resistance. It is important to recgonize that making abortion illegal would not make it go away, it would simply make it unsafe as is evidenced by our own history and the current situation in many countries.

Well, the Bible will tell you what you want to hear. In this passage it is clear the fetus is not considered a life:

“And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
Exodus 21:22-25

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In the Old Testament the fetus was considered a “fruit” (peri) that could be “cut up” and removed. (Deut 20:16-17). Slaughter of entire groups of people (male, female, young and old) was common (Joshua 10:13, 35-37). “Infants and sucklings” (newborns) were not spared the holocaust the ancient Jews waged against non Apiruan people (1 Sam 15:2-3): “Then Menahem murdered Tiphsah…and all the women who were within and were pregnant and killed ripped up the unborn children as well” (2 Kings 15:10; cp. 1 Sam 15:1-33). Little children were “dashed to pieces … and there was no pity on the fruit of the womb” (Isaiah 13:13-18; cf. Psalm 137:4, 9). Saul of Tarsus (“Paul”) argued that “it is good for a man not to touch a woman” (1 Cor 7:11) but if he had to (so as not to lust) then he should marry one wife (1 Cor 10:7-9; something Joseph Smith and the original LDS ignored in the USA). No where in OT or NT is there a statement prohibiting abortion. In fact, Jesus argues that it is better not to conceive or bring children into the world (Luke 23:29). The Koran does not mention the fetus, and like the Bible, the Koran does not condemn abortion—this condemnation comes centuries after the book was first published and then it is in a commentary. No religious literature, in its developmental stage condemns abortion, for that was always consider something private to the woman. Only when men became afraid of the ascendancy of woman did misogynism and gyneophobia emerge to entrench men into a position of power over women—which does not appear in any early society.

Danny, I cannot find the bible that renders the scripture that way. Can you please provide the name of the translation?

All other Bibles I have found render the verse:

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when in doubt refer to PROVERBS

6 things the LORD hates 7 is an abomination

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Rebecca Miller’s objectivity must be questioned when she quotes: “It’s been medically proven that the baby’s heart starts beating from 14-28 days after conception (usually before the mother even knows she’s pregnant), and by the 30th day almost every organ has started to form! He moves his arms and legs by six weeks and by 43 days his brain waves can be read. By eight weeks the baby has his very own fingerprints, he can urinate, make a strong fist, and he can feel pain.” Melody Kay Green, née Steiner, is an American speaker, writer and songwriter of Christian music. She was the wife of musician, singer and songwriter Keith Green (1953 – 1982), with whom she co-wrote many songs. She has no medical training, her books have been discounted by the American Medical Association, and every instance of the quote has been repeatedly proven false. She lives in Kansas City, MO and Oceanside CA, after her husband was killed in a plane crash that was overloaded by 450 pounds. He has no medical credentials.

Dr. Michael Bennet, chairman of the neuroscience department of the Albert Einstein School of Medicine in New York City, has studied and written extensively on brain development in the fetus—none exists at conception. There are no nuerons for the first four weeks and thus the fetus cannot feel pain. (Dr. Edwin C. Meyer, chair of Pediatric Neurology of the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, in The New York Times (25 Jan 85) The cerebral cortex does not exist before the 12th week and thus cannot cry out, laugh, etc. (Cf. Bischoff, Entwicklungsgeschichte des Hunde-Eies, 1845, tab ix, fig 42B, etc) Fetuses urinate? in what? It is sad for a student to insult the medical community and the conduct of inquiry. Frank Yates has a far better knowledge and understanding of the bible than Rebecca Miller.

Bill R suggests turning to Proverbs. The authorship of Proverbs has long been a matter of dispute. Solomon’s name appears in Proverbs 1:1, “The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, King of Israel.” There are also references within Proverbs to Agur (30:1) and Lemuel (31:1) as authors distinct from Solomon. These names are missing in the Greek translation of the Septuagint. Not only are the names “Agur” and “Lemuel” linked to other sections of the book, there are elements of disunity within the book that suggest more than one author. A majority of critical scholars, including James L. Crenshaw, Roland E. Murphy and L.G. Perdue, hold to the belief that much of Proverbs was brought together from a time well after Solomon. There has been a consensus among scholars that there is a crossover of some Egyptian and Assyrian nature in the proverbs from The Instructions of Amenemopet and Ahiqar. Nothing in Proverbs is original with the Hebrews; and the shedding of “innocent blood” refers to the murder of women and elderly. To understand them best, it is ideal to read them in their original languages (plural).

scodey—Danny Lee (who is correct) is citing the Douai verson published by Brepols in Turnhout, Belgium first published by the English College at Rheims in 1582. It matches, most closely than others, the actual Hebrew text.

I love the episode of “Friends” where Phoebe talks to the fertilized embryos before they are implanted in her. She says, “I will keep you warm and safe until you’re ready…” What a great pro-life argument. That unborn life is a human being and deserves protection as much as any one who is already out in the world.

Bottom line: Having an abortion should be the individual woman’s decision. It is HER body. If you have beliefs in a religion than more to you, however not everyone wants to hear them. A woman’s body is sacred to her, if their is an “un-wanted” pregnancy, than she has every right to do what she wants to. Yes, there is the option of adoption but let me say two things: 1. This is still having the baby which most women shy from due to several reasons that I don’t need to go into, we are all adults we know what happens when a baby is born. And 2. THE WORLD IS OVERPOPULATED!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone think of a more illiterate statement when they live in the state of this world???? I mean come on, can we please help those in other countries or focus on what kids are in adoption agencies than getting more in there or making women have children that just out right don’t want to. A baby is an enormous part of life, it is the beginning of life, however this does not mean a woman should be forced to have a kid she does not want to, let me repeat a child she DOES NOT want to have!!!

Recently, Rebecca Miller’s brilliant letter brought the poser status of Minister Yates to our attention. Somehow, this “Protestant” reinterpreted the bible to mean he, and his flock can be pro-choice. What is he thinking? Real Ministers and all good Christians hate abortions. And what’s with the church letting all these other important values disintegrate? I wouldn’t be surprised if Yates believes sodomites have a right to live, even marry. Everyone knows if you’re an adulterer or an ungrateful youth, you should be stoned and for god’s sake, don’t eat shellfish. It’s almost as if the people have turned their backs on God and the Bible. I would also like to applaud Victor Murthy’s Christian bravery, who, if you remember, brought another filthy, deadly sin to our attention. Gluttony. Hedonistic over eating is still rampant in our society. I’ve seen it, in the churches. Read your bible, read, read, and read again. We need to get back to our Middle Eastern roots. Good Christians of Albuquerque, for God’s, and humanity’s sake, you must always interpret the Bible literally.

The discussion surrounding religion is a platform for professors of history- Dr. Ide- and other pro-aborts to ignore science and obfuscate what is scientifically proven. Science has established this fact:a new, unique human being is created at conception as explained in the following authored by Maureen L. Condic , Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah School of Medicine and published October, 2008 by The Westchester Institute For Ethics & the Human Person.

“Resolving the question of when human life begins is critical for advancing a reasoned public policy debate over abortion and human embryo research. This article considers the current scientific evidence in human embryology and addresses two central questions concerning the beginning of life: 1) in the course of sperm-egg interaction, when is a new cell formed that is distinct from either sperm or egg? and 2) is this new cell a new human organism—i.e., a new human being? Based on universally accepted scientific criteria, a new cell, the human zygote, comes into existence at the moment of sperm-egg fusion, an event that occurs in less than a second. Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined ‘moment of conception’. This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life.”

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I don’t even know where to start… All I can even put into words right now is this *$!@ makes me sick… People need to go on living their own lives and not troubling themselves with other’s decisions of what they do with their lives. If you live simply you live happily… STOP TRYING TO CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES USING GOD AS YOUR ARGUMENT!!!!!!! You get one life here on this planet, choose wisely with the time you are given and just live!!!! Mind your own business and live your own life.
-out

This is in response to Danny Lee.
Before you quote scripture, I suggest you do a little bit more research. I don’t know what translation you quoted, but it my New King James Version it goes like this: “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if ANY harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.” Exodus 21:22-25
Now, you are claiming that this means that causing a miscarriage is just punishable by a fine, but your argument is false because that is clearly not what the scripture says. It says that if a women is harmed so that she gives birth early, but no harm follows meaning NO HARM as in the baby is okay, then he is punished like you said. But it goes on to say that if ANY HARM follows meaning miscarriage or in other words death, then he shall have LIFE FOR LIFE. They described right there the unborn as life and if there is harm to it, the punishment is life for life. And sorry Danny, the bible doesn’t tell me what I WANT to hear, but what I NEED to hear.

Voluntary abortion is very rare. Most abortions are forced by a boyfriend or parent, usually the mother. 97% of women who have an abortion deeply regret it eventually. If you truly care about women, please find out about the ramifications before you support a woman’s right to choose. It is so much more important than a legal issue.

Victoria Grace –

Here’s the same quote from the original King James version, sans the convenient manipulation of the new one:

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