I don’t like PETA. Can’t stand them. They’re the ONLY ones who throw things on people, and they’re attention whores. It would be ever-so-sweet if non-vegans would actually take a moment to acknowledge that vegans are more than PETA. Vegan Outreach is also a fairly mainstream vegan organization.

But if people use “shock tactics,” maybe it’s because there’s something actually shocking about what’s going on? Maybe it’s because that’s what woke people up from the idea that farmers are just a bunch of well-meaning people? Of course people use more than shock tactics. I prefer to save those for last, even though it’s what made me vegan… because I know most people simply do not care about the suffering they are supporting, and I don’t even want to have to deal with their righteous meat-eating indignation about the notion of their not being able to eat what they’ve always had the privilege to eat.

Did you know that there is more than one type of saturated fat? Coconut oil is 92% saturated but mostly medium chain fatty acids (MCFA). Just my two cents.

Cheers,
CoconutOilGuy
http://www.coconut-oil-central.com
Your Drugstore in a Bottle

Secondly, the great majority of farmers and ranchers follow nationally-recognized animal welfare guidelines developed by veterinarians and animal care specialists. Antibiotics are simply a tool that farmers can use (judiciously) to help keep their animals healthy.

Today, one farmer provides enough food for 155 people. I think it does those hardworking folks a disservice to infer that they don’t care about their animals. The animals are their way of life!

Re: antibiotics, The switch from grass-based diets to corn-based diets (which is a whole other story) has been deleterious to the digestive tracts of cows, resulting in blooming numbers of e. coli in their intestines. It’s been reported that putting cows on a grass-based diets for a mere 5 days will cause them to shed 80% of the e. coli in their guts. But instead of going that route, farmers are now using antibiotics to control the e. coli. Not only are we creating antibiotic-resistant super bacteria, but we’re still seeing ever-increasing numbers of e. coli outbreaks in humans! (73,000 in 2007 alone)

No one is against farmers—I personally believe that small family-owned farms producing food within their foodshed and selling to their community. Note that the USDA cite you referenced also points out that most of the production by these family farms comes from very large family farms (making sometimes upward of $1 million/yr), making you wonder what exactly the title ‘family farm’ really means any more.

We say we are kind and “humane” – Yet the UNNECESSARY slaughter of billions of animals certainly proves different. There is nothing that can justify killing without need. To do so, says we kill for “pleasure” – and certainly that is not the way towards an evolved civilization; Let alone an enlightened culture.

As a society, Animal Rights has every thing to do with our psychological fitness and with how we live in a just manner.

Want a better world? Eat like you mean it – Go Vegan.

While I may not agree with some of the management tactics, I at least understand what’s behind them. Do you? And don’t say ‘money’ or ‘profit’, because that’s rarely the accurate answer.

The passage of legislation by popular vote is unwise in the case of agriculture. Those who not only know, but understand, the entire rationale and who honor the scientific basis of welfare should be the ones making the decisions regarding how animals should be raised and kept.

Let’s take chickens as an example.

Friend of mine was given chicks from a commercial laying strain for her home flock. They were day olds when she received them, so there was no learned behavior involved.

These chickens refused to forage; they would not leave the coop by choice; they constantly huddled together as a very tight group despite being given plenty of room to roam should they choose. Even several years later, they still had markedly different behavior patterns as compared to the free-roaming flock’s other members.

But lay they did. Huge, beautiful eggs and lots of them. They never ‘went broody’; they just laid and laid while staying in good body condition even on the ‘despised’ commercial feed.

These animals are selected and bred for the traits which make them tolerant of management methods and demands that the average member of their species wouldn’t be able to handle. That’s the whole point of selection, a huge part of stockmanship.

So unless you are a stockman—a true, productive, member of the agriculture field—you really have no room to speak. You have to know the whys and the wherefores before you can dictate the ways in which animals must be used or kept.

Now, you say there are chicks who refuse to forage??? That’s odd – Because the flock I care for now instinctually knew how to do this… And to dust bathe… And to fly. Granted, it took them a few days to get their weak bodies and legs to work (for the first time)… But they sure enjoy their freedom now!

Newborns and hatchlings? I’ve raised enough of them too to know the foraging is as natural as breathing.

You also say “ABUSED, UNHEALTHY ANIMALS DON’T PRODUCE WELL”.
Let’s see… There are two “commodities” farmers extract
exclusively from female animals… Milk and eggs.

In the case of eggs – Eggs are a natural result of physiology to a hen… Eggs are hen’s menstral cycle… Their “periods”. It is well known that even in the most horrific of circumstances during wars and famine – Women of child bearing age will have their “periods” regardless of “health” or nutrition… It just can’t be stopped… For farmers, (and egg eaters) what a perfect being to exploit – Talk about “golden gooses”…

With eggs… Comes chicks —- I hardly think that the billions of male chicks that are ground up within a day of birth would qualify as animals that farmers are interested in “keeping healthy”… Heck —- They don’t even wish to keep them alive! Grind them up and feed them back to their enslaved mothers… And this is acceptable treatment to animals?

Which brings me to the same issue of unwanted boy calves in the dairy industry… Farmers aren’t too interested in keeping them “healthy” or alive either.

All newborn calves are removed at birth – “Bobby’s” with their umbelical cords still attached go to slaughter within days… The other bull calves become “veal” at only a few months old. Meanwhile, humans are priviledged to steal the milk from the mother cows… Artificially inseminating them so she can continue to birth and “give” milk. When she is no longer
productive, at a fraction of her age, she is sent to slaughter too…

But you see, again —- She cannot help but “contribute” her mammary secretions… It is as unpreventable for her to stop “producing” milk after bearing an infant as it is unlikely for a human under “bad” circumstances to do such… Obviously the biolgy is on the side of the taker —- And for this reason, it is no shame when humans wish to make the injustice more fair. After all we can agree on this: Why cause harm when we don’t have to?

We do not “need” eggs or milk or “meat”… To use these animals in such vile ways for “luxuries” is simply not right.

And if we were to go on about the making of “meat” – the injustice is there just as well… Meat is had by force and domination as well… Even though it is not “necessary”. Force, pain, suffering and killing for the sheer indulgences of tastebuds, just can’t be condoned by any “civilized” culture.

I don’t know… The questions might be how urgent are our whims? How much can we swallow in the name of “pleasure”? At what point do we look at the lives of others and say, that as a decent human being, I can no longer contribute to this ugliness, if I don’t have to… World —- You DON’T HAVE TO!

In fact to continue so is to the detriment of not only innocent victims – but to human and planetary health. Sustaining our lives on a plant based vegan diet is the obvious best choice… It’s really not that “hard” to do! … really. ;)

I have many photos and videos of cat and dog “farms”, with animals we would probably consider “special” crammed into filthy cages. If you dont believe me, by all means look up “cat farm” in a search engine.

I would assume most people reading my comment would be horrified at the idea of killing cats for their fur and “meat”, so I would challenge these people to ask themselves what the difference is between a cat and a chicken. Inherently, nothing is born with “rights”, we grant “rights” as we see fit, it wasnt that long ago that those of certain skin shades could not sit at the front of buses in the USA for example. That has since been corrected.

I hope that more people realise a chicken is a cow is a cat very soon, I promote Veganism on my podcast in the hopes that I can help people make up their own minds about our animal friends.

Jordan Wyatt
Invercargill,
New Zealand

So your logic that if people go veg for health reasons they’ll learn to care about animals is flawed. I don’t believe there is any evidence to support this either. More people care about their own health today than in the past yet more animals are being killed for food than ever before.

I don’t believe you can speak for all vegetarians simply because you are one. And when was the last time someone splattered someone else for wearing fur? Ten years ago? Longer? I think it’s time people gave this a rest.

onafixedincome wrote: “ABUSED, UNHEALTHY ANIMALS DON’T PRODUCE WELL”

This is the same argument circus owners give about their animals being abused. It’s LAME! Some of the biggest and most successful animal exploiters, like Tyson, have been observed abusing their animals.

And to the other Sarah, yes, almost all the farms are owned and operated by families. But almost all of them are controlled by the corporations. Watch Food Inc. to learn more.

It is a radical idea to exclude animal products from your diet. It’s also the most humane thing to do. If you abhor violence, go vegan.

“we” vegetarians?? the dude said “vegan outreach” not vegetarian outreach…the two are not anywhere close to the same thing.

Vegetarians are responsible for the slaughter and abuse of tens of millions of animals per year. Every time they give money to the dairy industry to feed their insatiable appetite for cheese.

So if you feel like using the word “we” to group yourself and vegetarians with another group of people based upon similar diets you would be much more accurate to group yourself with omnivores than with vegans.

Read her post carefully. You will see that she considers animals to be the equal of humans and thinks they should be extended the same rights and privileges. She supports the radical animal rights agenda and occasionally tries to justify illegal acts committed by radical animal rights activsts.

Read her comments on other articles. She is consistent in her beliefs even if those beliefs involve a cult like faith.

Ask her what she believes about God (she doesn’t). She, like most vegans is agnostic at best but is more likely a pagan, although she probably doesn’t consider herself to be such.

ASk yourself if that is the kind of person you want to align with.

so tell me about myself next please. . .

Yep! It absolutely is! Thanks, Bea, for what was a clear, informative, EDUCATED and relevant response. It’s a shame I can’t say as much for others commenting here.

Ag Teacher – if you have nothing relevant or non-defamatory to contribute, I suggest you don’t contribute at all.

BTW: I believe that Ms. Elliott is incorrect on two points: When a woman is quite ill, her menstrual cycle often stops. Severe illness can also cause a lapse in lactation. This could be her body pulling energy from what it sees as “non-essential” to try to increase its immune system and regain its health. Since we are equating human characteristics to animals, I assume that we can agree that animals would react in the same way.