These people are twisted voyeurs. I don’t know why UNM gives them the space …

Because UNM is public property funded by taxpayers and about 222 years ago some crazy fools created the US Constitution that says nobody can stop FREE SPEECH and the expression thereof.

Doc, is it “twisted voyeurism” to show pictures of the Nazi holocaust or the brutality of fascist Japan in Nanking or is it telling the history of man’s behavior in pictures so we never forget?
The real question is this: If these are the evidence of what happens to little human beings, why do we allow this to happen, what kind of people are we to permit children to die for no reason other than convenience?

Because the pictures of the holocaust and the brutality of Japan in Nanking are fair representations of what happened. Holding up more pictures of third term abortions rather than first term is not a fair representation…thats why.

First it was baby, now its children? Is there ever an embryo? Oh I forgot, its immediately a child once the DNA is combined, thats great logic and good reasoning. Why not just hold up pictures of any murdered child since thats the line of logic that you choose.

Well Dane, science states at the moment of fusion- the piercing of the egg by the sperm- we are a unique human life. Those scientific terms zigot, embryo, infant, toddler, teen, adult, senior only describe the state of development for us, the human species. They do not alter or diminish that we are a living human being from the moment of fusion until death.
If the only pictures of Hitler’s brutality were of the retarded and deformed children killed in the T4 program would that lessen the evil of killing those who are inconvenient? Did you mean to imply that the photos of 6-7-8 month babies aborted are invalid because they represent a small percent of the total number of abortions; 4.6 percent or 55,660 of the 1.2 million abortions? How many must die for you to say it is wrong?
I do not speak for the group who will present their material, so I do not know the age of the aborted whose pictures you can see. But Dane, why would the age of the dead matter? Isn’t the issue why are these kids dead?
Want to see photos of first trimester abortions? Go to http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/pictures.html.

Oh Philip,

Here we go again. “Science states”. I am a scientist. Please stop attempting to defer to other scientists as if you cannot use your own logic and critical reasoning. Do or do not an overwhelming majority of anti-abortionists use pictures of third-trimester abortions to apply to the entire abortion process??? Why not just use the ones of the first trimestser (like the web-site that you provided)?

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@Daniel – too bad your free speech idea doesn’t include alternatives to unwanted/mistreated children (actual children I mean, like the one next door, not fetuses).

@Howell – not sure I want Nazi or Nanking atrocities paraded around where I work, study & eat, either. And yes, for the record, these events occurred.

Dannes, what does your logic and critical reasoning say is in the womb 10,25, 100, 250 days post fusion assuming it has not died of natural causes or been forcibly removed through abortion?
I note you did not dispute that terms of development are simply a way to describe our aging from the moment of fusion.
What difference is there between an abortion at day 25 and day 260? Isn’t it a fact the purpose of all abortions, regardless of age of the fetus, is to end the life of that human being and then remove the remains from the womb?

It’s tough and difficult to discover anything about UNM to be proud of these days. This ultra-liberal campus is typically a severe embarrassment to the most conservative students (yes there are a few of us). However, the fact that UNM is allowing a strong conservative message to be heard/seen at UNM is refreshingly impressive. We become numb over time due to the recurrent insults to our intelligence and character resulting from incidents ranging to flying the Mexican flag, constant University sanctuary support for illegal immigrants, to retention of football coaches who clobber their fellow assistant coaches. Thank you UNM for allowing this display.

Phillip and Dane, your arguing over a topic that neither of you can win. Nobody can say for sure where life really starts. But I do argue in favor of Dane/Daniel, that the way in which these people are making their argument is not effective. Showing these pictures on campus every year has not made me want to come any closer to talking with these people, it only makes me more and more angry that the only way they can try to prove their point is by repulsing everybody.

And slowhike, I have seen more conservative booths on campus lately than I have when I started college four years ago, and while I don’t agree with conservatives, I think they’re making their message better heard with those booths than giant posters of other people’s abortions and trying to piss off as many liberals off as they can.

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Steph, my purpose is not to win but to educate so thoughtful people who use reason and logic can decide (a) what is the purpose of an abortion, (b) what is the result and © is this good for women and society. It is a given an abortion is always bad news for the unborn.
I am dismayed that after four years at UNM you do not know it is settled science that a new, unique human being is created at the moment of fusion. All of your physical characteristics and your unique DNA existed at fusion (conception); you are today who yuo were at that moment, just older and fully formed.
If you talked to the people manning that exhibit you may find they are not there to “piss off as many liberals off as they can” but rather to answer questions and educate people.
Steph, why would you be angry with the poster people or those who preach their version of God? How are you harmed or threatened by them? BTY, I asked that of a friend who is opposed to gays’ being allowed to go about their own business. He could not explain how he was threatened. The great conservative, William Buckley responded to a challenge regarding gays this way: ‘I attended Catholic School, was taught by nuns for many years. If being around them so much would influence me I would have become one.’
Being around those who have ideas different than you is a way to expand your knowledge.

Phillip, I’m glad you assume I’m uneducated on this topic. I’m also glad you seem to know what’s best for women. And I’m glad that you overlook the circumstances in which women have abortions. But I’m not arguing, like you and Dane, if abortion should be legal, or where life actually begins. I agree with you actually, that people should definitely be educated on this topic, especially way before an abortion takes place. But if you can only get your point across by using the “fear factor” or “shock value” of these pictures, then what is the real point you are trying to make? That abortion is disgusting? Is that it?? If fear is all you can use to make your point, it can’t be a very strong point in the first place.

What about the women who are raped? Why should they have a baby that would remind them of the most traumatic point in their life? Would you want something inside you that came from a rapist? What about women who will die if they have a baby? Should they sacrifice themselves? These are questions the pictures don’t answer.

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The life being discussed in this line of posts is when life becomes human life. No scientist would argue that life exists in a fetus and in fact exists before conception. Life exists at the molecular level and everyone knows and accepts that. So the question is when does it become killing or murder or when does abortion involve ending an existing human life. No one really has an abortion because they want to end a life either- it is most often because it would be very inconvenient to have a baby at an inoportune time in the adults life. The issue is how is this ignored or rationalized or justified.

Everyone knows that if left alone there will be a birth and a baby. So aside from the fact that the pregnancy would possibly result in the mother’s death, there’s no good rationale along these lines.

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I would like to encourage everyone to note whether or not the measurements of gestational age for these pictures is calculated by Justice for All in the same way that it is generally calculated by healthcare providers. If, for instance, JFA is using “fetal age” as opposed to gestational age calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period, this could be (intentionally?) misleading.

Why should irresponsible people be forced to raise their unwanted children? Why should unfortunate people be forced to go through with a pregnancy that will only lead in debilitation or death to the child and/or mother at birth? Its only going to cause more strife in the world, especially if the kid(s) survives only to be dumped into the overcrowded, underfunded, and broken adoption system. Isn’t this far more irresponsible than having unprotected sex?

Life sucks, it is full of grief and is just plain unfair. However there is a little bit of sunshine, and as humans, we can think and incorporate logic into our lives and make things better. Drop the god thing already, its time for humanity to move forward.

I’m disgusted to see people pushing to give men more power over women’s bodies. As gruesome as abortion may appear, it hardly compares with state coercion.

I don’t agree with JFA blowing those pictures up. I agree with the people who said it just made them want to walk away quickly. It was highly inflammatory, however, they did their job. They wanted to bring attention to the issue, and THAT they did.

What I observed out in Smith Plaza was mostly people preaching to the choir. Most of the people standing around and lining up to speak seemed like they were told to show up by their evangelical pastors, “Go support Justice for All, they’ll be on campus Monday-Wednesday!” So people applauded those who spoke out against abortion while few people spoke who supported abortion rights and they got little applause. Big deal.

Whatever you think about when life begins, we are not going backwards on this issue. Do people forget why abortion was legalized to begin with? The tragedy of botched back-alley abortions and women performing abortions on themselves was not worthy of a society such as ours. These things still happen in many third world countries where abortion is still illegal. In our country, however, a safe, legal abortion is your right. If you don’t believe in abortion you don’t have to have one. But we’re not going back to back alleys and wire hangers.

I would agree with everything that has been said so far against the display on the plaza by JFA, and as a single mother, I would like to add a couple more points.

First, the fact that these images are where children can see them is totally unacceptable. There are many cruel, brutal things in the world that I’m am opposed to:domestic violence, the abuse of sex workers, and warfare. However, I would not put huge, gruesome images of any of these where they might be seen by children. I don’t see how frightening children is in any way beneficial to anyone’s cause, and I also respect the rights of parents to protect their children form both pictures and knowledge that they are too young to process.

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To allow Justice for All to display these pictures is an abysmal mistake on someone’s part. As a student who got to relive the worst moments of a miscarriage every time I have needed to use the library this week I can only say that there is a spot in hell for these people who are as devoid of compassion as they claim their opponents to be.